bertha issue 2

[bertha]

Does everyone understand how and why Issue 2 came into being? Issue 2 must pass or the economy of the State of Ohio will likely suffer irreparable damage! Issue 2 was created because of the extreme misleading tactics of The Humane Society of the United States aka HSUS. I am not a "factory farmer" and actually by todays standards operate a relatively small farm,however, if Issue 2 fails, I and many many other family farmers will not be able to survive. If you want to learn more about HSUS and their tactics go to ActivistsCash.com

[estherlike]

The website is www.activistcash.com/ On the front page on the right side you will find the information on the HSUS. Just thought I would correct the link.

[howard]

I am in favor of issue 2. it does not go far enough though. I think, there I go again thinking,
that every county should have a spokesperson. this position does not have to be a payed position but a concerned livestock farmer respected and standing up for the county they reside in. to give a high paying job to someone that is not in the field is ludicrous. if you want it to run right get the right people in.

[turf toed]

nobody should vote for issue 2. it rewrites our state constitution to give power to lobbyists. the language of the issue says the ohio senate oversees and recomends who sits on the board, so whoever pays them off the best gets a seat. im voting no!

[bertha]

In response to "turf toed guest": Issue 2 does indeed add an amendment to the Ohio Constitution,however, I question whether it does give lobbyists that much power to "buy their way in." The stakes are too high for many people to understand what will happen if this issue does not pass. An argument against the issue states that " Making the Proposed livestock board a constitutional board would be an inappropriate use of the Ohio Constitution." If you will take time to read the information in the website listed above:http//www.activistcash.com/ , you will see that this issue came about because Ohio faces action by the HSUS, the largest animal rights organization on earth with assets over $200 million and an operating budget of over $90 million. Talk about "LOBBYING POWER" !!! In Florida in 2002 they lobbied the Florida Legislature, got an Issue on the ballot that passed giving pregnant sows Constitional Rights! You want to talk about misuse of a state constitution! Consequently with that issues' passage, the pork industry was nearly eliminated in the state of Florida. In Michigan, just a few weeks ago the Governor signed a bill that will essentually cripple hog farrowing operations, chicken laying houses, and veal raising operations. Do we want to see these farm businesses disappear from Ohio's landscape? If Issue 2 fails this could quite easily happen!

[henry]

you know bertha 2, I really like veggies, but I also like pork chops, beef, hot dogs, butter , eggs,milk, cheese , some fish, roasts, lamb, chicken, turkey (Thanksgiving yum)!,sausage, ice cream , milk shakes. Now you take away all the farmer rights and tell me how you are going to feed your family on green beans, peas, lettuce and rice ......and that is just what this issue 2 is all about, making vegetarians out of the people and the animals can just roam and live in peace because we won't be able to touch then in any way or form or else face prosecution .
Does this] tune sound like Madlyn O"Hara years ago when she got her way with taking all forms of religion out of the schools. Sure does to me

[turf toed]

nice try the florida issue only eliminated the practice of putting pregnant pigs in 2 foot stalls for 4 months that they cant even turn around in that destroys their joints and feet. and if you want to talk cash monsanto had earnings of over 2.6 billion last year and had 1.5 billion in cash on hand that they expected to grow to 1.8 billion this year. the 90 million from hsus you are worried about is a drop in the bucket compared to what the corporate lobbyists have and are willing to spend

[Whirled Peas]

You know, this issue reminds me of the yearly "War On Christmas" this nation engages in. Every year we have to listen to people go on about how their right to celebrate Christmas is infringed upon, because the local shopping mall isn't putting up a Christmas tree in the food court. I don't know about you all, but I've never celebrated Christmas in any food court in any shopping mall. Yet every year, Christmas always comes, and is never canceled for lack of a Christmas tree at an airport or where ever.

The same is true of these state issues. In the case of Issue 2, and let's be honest here, the corporate farms that have a history of animal abuse have convinced the small farmers that the law will actually target THEM, rather than the factory farmers who have ruined the industry's reputation. That factory farm in California that was under contract to the government to provide meat for the school lunch program, and was exposed last year for using forklifts to get downer cattle into the slaughterhouse, immediately comes to mind.

If you bird dog where the big money comes from for this Issue 2 kabuki theater, you'll find that it comes from the corporate farms who treat their herds as dollar signs, rather than an asset. If you want HSUS to back off, then tell the corporate farmers to lay off the practices that make you all look bad. And, yes, when they shoot water from a fire hose up a downed cow's nose to get it in the slaughterhouse, they make YOU look bad. Instead of doing the corporate factory farmer's bidding, take back your industry's reputation.

[bertha]

Thank you Henry! That is what Issue 2 is all about! If Issue 2 fails the vegetarian backed HSUS will be ready to step in and bring on legislation that will slowly but surely bring animal agriculture to an end. Dear turf toed Guest, do you know how many baby pigs their mothers will lay on if they have a bigger pen to lay in? Picture a sow lying on her side with ten or twelve piglets nursing- she decides to roll over and does- the babies end up under her suffocated! That's not a pretty sight in anyones eyes! To Whirled Peas: I can assure you, the Downer Cow case in California was very unsettling to everyone in the livestock industry! In no way do I condone what was uncovered in that news story. However, the factory with the government contract was NOT a factory farm but a slaughterhouse that should have been under USDA jurisdiction. Please do not criticise livestock producers for something they did not do! Again, Issue 2 was created to create a "livestock care board" comprised of a rounded group of people ranging from family farmers to a representative of a local humane society to consumer representatves to insure that animals are handled in the proper way- from birth to slaughter.

[Whirled Peas]

Bertha, with all due respect, nobody believes that those downer cows suddenly got sick and were only unable to stand AFTER their transport to the slaughterhouse. They used chains to drag some of them out of the trailers from where they had been transported to slaughter. They came in sick.

In so far as the pigs, if I could step on turf toed's toes for a minute, the sows are caged for months BEFORE they even give birth. So it has nothing at all to do with a nursing pig rolling over on the piglets.

Can you point me to where HSUS states that they want us all to become vegetarians? I mean for crying out loud, they don't even oppose the act of animal slaughter in religious ceremonies. They do oppose the inhumane confinement or treatment of animals before any type of slaughter. Again, it's behavior commonly exhibited by the large factory farms, not the small town farmers, that have drawn their attention. So to state HSUS wants to end animal agriculture in the U.S. if Issue 2 in Ohio isn't passed is a red herring.

And since Henry brought up Madalyn Murray O'Hair, can anyone guess where she graduated from college?

That's right! Ashland University. (It was called Ashland College back then)

[henry]

sounds like someone had better pull up the HSUS documents and read it over and over again. They do indeed the idea of the people becoming vegetarians . If I want to become a vegetarian, I want to do it on my own will and not because these idiots want to shut down all aspects of farmers raising beef, lamb, chickens, etc. You get the pticture. Please get informed.

[henry]

oops, I let out a word, meaning (they do indeed pursue the idea of people becoming vegetarians) And one more thing. I would like to see proof of O'Hair graduating from Ashland College. It's hard to believe she went to any school .....but this is not the issue, was only a comparasion.....the issue is voting for Issue 2.

[guest]

All one has to do is go to the website for HSUS. It is stated clearly that their mission is to do away with anima agricuture; that seems to me to be the same as promoting a vegetarian society. People have to eat something.
I am a farmer; my animals are cared for nearly as well as pet dogs or cats or other species. They were created to be cared for to provide meat, milk, and all of the other products that are rendered from them when they are no longer producing their primary product (meat,milk)
I want agriculture to remain the number one industry in the state of Ohio....when counting all of the allied businesses that are connected with agriculture. If issue 2 fails...and production practices are changed as significantly as has happened in other states where ballot issues presented by HSUS have been approved by the voters...it is not only animal agriculture that will be affected....but also the producers of corn and soybeans will lose markets for their products. No market...lower prices...TALK ABOUT RECESSION...will make what we are enduring now look much less significant...This time it will be all farmers, regardless of size.
I had my reservations about the need for a constitutional amendment for this issue. However, the constitution is the vehicle that is used to define our state. Agriculture is at the very core of our state's identity. And agriculture needs all the support it can receive, because the people behind the products, are decent, hardworking individuals who take pride in their vocation/avocation. The amendment is the right thing to do!

[Whirled Peas]

Oct 27, 2009 19:26:55 GMT -5 henry said:

sounds like someone had better pull up the HSUS documents and read it over and over again. They do indeed the idea of the people becoming vegetarians . If I want to become a vegetarian, I want to do it on my own will and not because these idiots want to shut down all aspects of farmers raising beef, lamb, chickens, etc. You get the pticture. Please get informed.

I'm quite informed, thank you.

Here's the HSUS Mission Statement:

www.hsus.org/about_us/

Here's the HSUS Statement of Principles and Beliefs

www.hsus.org/about_us/statements/principles_and_beliefs.html

Here's the HSUS Statement on Farm Animals and Eating with Conscience

www.hsus.org/about_us/statements/statement_on_farm_animals_eating.html

NOWHERE does it say their "goal" is to make everyone a vegetarian. Nowhere. While they do encourage people to eliminate animal products from their diets, they ALSO encourage people to eat "products only from animals who have been raised, transported, and slaughtered in a system of humane, sustainable agriculture that does not abuse the animals."

So it's clear HSUS recognizes people will always eat animal products. Their objection comes when the animals are abused during the process. They also oppose puppy mills and dog fighting. Are they wrong to do that as well? Geez!

And if you go to Google.com and type in the words "Madalyn Murray O'Hair Ashland College" you'll get page after page of "proof". If O'Hair had filed suit because her son was forced to participate in Muslim prayers, you'd all hail her as some sort of hero. But because she filed suit over her son being forced to participate in Christian prayers, you portray her as some sort of villain. And, yes, it was a very weak comparison to inject her in this thread, since prayer was compulsory at that time, and vegetarianism is NOT.

[guest]

Check out this website for another 'watchdog' insight of HSUS
ActivistCash.com

[Whirled Peas]

Oct 28, 2009 17:16:34 GMT -5 @guest said:

Check out this website for another 'watchdog' insight of HSUS
ActivistCash.com

The website, ActivistCash.com, is owned by a DC group called the Center for Consumer Freedom. Before that, the group was called the Guest Choice Network. They got their start-up capital from Phillip Morris. Among some of their notable contributors are Monsanto corporation.

The Center for Consumer Freedom is run by a lobbying firm in DC called Berman and Company. The CCF has also attacked people for wanting to raise public awareness about the dangers of being overweight, smoking, and drunk driving.

Their goal is to advance big business. Period. They don't give a damn about you small-time farmers. Their credibility is in the toilet - they've got your credibility in there too - and they're asking you to reach outside the bowl and pull the handle. The only thing is, they remain millionaires, while their corporate buddies look for ways to sue you small-timers into oblivion and put you out of business. So, by all means, keep shilling for them. You make their multi-million dollar jobs much easier.