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Post by ormand on Aug 2, 2009 15:30:37 GMT -5
It may be what they want people to think but from past experience with state employees, etc., there is a lot of communicating at conferences that doesn't not necessarily help the area that the people who attend are from, and I bet that may be what happens!
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Post by gunny on Aug 3, 2009 8:59:08 GMT -5
Gee Ormand, reading between the lines of your post, you mean the networking might not be all positive in nature? LOL I couldn't keep a straight face as I typed this! They are human and I bet a good amount of complaining and commiserating does go on. The real question needing answered is, is more positive for the citizens of the County goes on and if it is worth the money spent to send them?
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Post by ormand on Aug 3, 2009 11:34:49 GMT -5
Gunny, when you think about all the money the commissioners spent on attending meetings, travel, meals, and lodging, don't you think a lot of that money could of been spent somewhere else? May be the county wouldnt be in the shape we are in if they would have listened to the Auditor the past few years! They may well have picked up some interesting things, but since they only work part time anyway, don't you think if they had searched they might of been able to find the same information. It wouldn't have cost no where near as much, and surely that would apply to hiring an attorney for $5000, when they could have gotten information from Medina Co., just someone on this site has been able to do. Seems like everyone you talk to, is upset over many things the commissioners have done, agree? How much experience do you have to have to be a commissioner?
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Post by gunny on Aug 3, 2009 21:21:37 GMT -5
Ormand, I believe Matt Miller ran the first time when he was just 18. Experience and qualifications are on the minimum. I agree with the rest of the post but sometimes you need the face to face.
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Post by estherlike on Aug 6, 2009 15:03:12 GMT -5
The Commissioners meeting audio is now on the website from today 8-6-09. At the meeting today, the Commissioners decided to put on the November ballot the 1/4% sales tax increase issue. They also voted on a resolution for over $1900 for flooring and carpet from Barefoot Floors for the 4 offices that will be going to the former Heartland Home.
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Post by estherlike on Aug 13, 2009 20:35:23 GMT -5
>:(Another very interesting and disheartening meeting today. Today was actually almost 2 meetings as there was a break between the first meeting (main meeting) and the budget meeting which began at 10:15. Both are on the website at www.caofac.org. In the first meeting, the Commissioners approved the resolution to sell the Agriculture Building on Route 250. Sealed bids will be accepted until September 10. Toward the end of this meeting, a member of the public asked the question (and a very good one) of zoning issues. Apparently there are some zoning issues pertaining to the usage being changed from a residential care facility to office space. In the second (budget) meeting, the Commissioners were warned of the increased deficit of almost $92,000 and they (the Commissioners) decided to wait until the bidding on the building is done to see if they can sell the building and use those funds to carry the county through the rest of the year. Toward the end of this meeting, a member of the public asked the Commissioners why they had not taken a pay cut like the rest of the County employees have. The only response to this was Mike Welch stating that they have, they now pay $100/month for their health care plan for a family. That is not a pay cut, keep in mind the rest of the county employees also have to pay this health care premium AND took a pay cut. So the question remains unanswered, where are the Commissioners pay cuts and why have they not taken any? Kim Edwards can be heard saying that "Ms. Jones can verify that we were at a meeting last night until 9:15". Although this statement is true, what was NOT said is that the other members of the Planning Commission that were there until 9:45 (yes, the Commissioners left early) all volunteer their time whereas the Commissioners get paid to be there. There is a difference. This is a time when ALL in the county need to do their share and I don't see the Commissioners making the same sacrifices they want their employees or constituents to make.
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henry
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Post by henry on Aug 16, 2009 16:42:31 GMT -5
Hi, Just a brief comment on Aug 13th commissioners meeting. Sorry about the delay. Told a friend to watch the TG. Look at what they omit in their reporting of the events at the meeting.Haven't heard any other comments about the questions asked, the look of wonder when asked about the barns, the antique tractor, their pay cuts, seems the commissioners question what barn did the questioneer mean. My goodness, how many barns did they sell and how many tractors did they get rid of. Always seems like they are avoiding a straight answer when quizzed. Did anyone else pick up on this event. Also told that hashing over Heartland Home was over and done with, that it was not going to be reopened. One commissioner was very adamant about the subject being brought up again. How about it folks any comments.
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Post by estherlike on Aug 16, 2009 21:48:00 GMT -5
>:(You are right, henry. The commissioner that does not want to talk about is the same one that wouldn't talk about it to begin with. The same one that refused to hear anything that would help to keep the home open. As far as the barn, the commissioners are NEVER going to admit wrong doing and when they are pinned are going to get the same old "deer in the headlight" look. I found it interesting that the only comment about pay cuts was the fact that they pay a portion of their insurance. Keep in mind they pay the same amount as the other county employees who took pay cuts in addition to having to pay a portion of their insurance. You always know when you have them by the look on their faces and the fact that the one commissioner can't seem to hold their temper in check.
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henry
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Post by henry on Aug 21, 2009 8:43:47 GMT -5
Hey esterlike: Did you read the TG this morning. ? Seems like they will have to come up with some big bucks!! And it isn't over yet, they still have to deal with the board of elections.......might they not have to dip into their interest funds that are coming due to cover this cost. If not where is it going to come from since they are so broke! How about it gunny, ormand, any comments.......... H
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Post by estherlike on Aug 21, 2009 18:28:06 GMT -5
Not only are they going to need to come up the funds for the attorney for the Board of Elections (which will come out of the BOE funds) but they have to retain outside counsel as well. In addition, the state auditor will not be doing the audit next year so that is another expense when the county has to hire outside CPA to conduct the audit. To make matters worse, the $680million dollar error the state made in it's calculations have not come down the pike yet. That will be a substantial cut sometime towards the end of this year or beginning of next. Gets deeper every time you turn around. Seems like a good time to renovate a building and move offices that are just fine where they are don't you think?
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Post by gunny on Aug 22, 2009 15:06:16 GMT -5
Wait a minute here! Estherlike, Isn't there a posting under the Commissioners section on this website that tells how another county did something similar and didn't cost anywhere near $5,000.00 let alone $8,000.00? Didn't it involve the County Prosecutor asking another County Prosecutor for special counsel and it was done pro bono - only charges was for expenses? Why has this not happened here? I would be extremely surprised if the Commissioners or others are not reading this website. It appears they just thnk the taxpayers will foot the bill in the form of further cuts for the departments!!!
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Post by estherlike on Aug 22, 2009 17:13:56 GMT -5
Yes, Gunny, there is a document from Medina County, the very county that the CCAO Summer Conference was held in and that the Commissioners like to compare Ashland County to, that the Prosecuting Attorney sought assistance from Cuyahoga County Prosecuting Attorney for a similar situation and the only expense was for actual expenses. And I am sure actual expenses would not have cost $1740 for a trip to Ashland County to meet with the Judge and Commissioners. But if you read the TG for Friday that is what this attorney charged for a trip to Ashland for a meeting. This is also not yet being looked into, as to my knowledge, to handle the situation with the BOE. In the clarification or correction today, the TG stated there has been no papers served or something to that effect. I do know that according to the Commissioners they have not yet received any court documents which would indicate the BOE has not yet filed suit even though the Commissioners did approve for private counsel for the BOE. In this situation, again, the Ashland County Prosecuting Attorney will not be able to represent either party because she is legal counsel for both parties. If BOE does go through with their legal filings the county can look forward to a pretty hefty legal bill because in the first instance, Judge Woodward is a lawyer and therefore would probably have been able to represent herself. In the case of the BOE, unless one of the members is an attorney (which I have been told one is but I have not been able to verify this as yet) then the county taxpayers will be footing the bill for 2 private counsels, one for the BOE and one for the Commissioners. Hopefully the Commissioners will have learned their lesson and use an attorney closer to Ashland County so we don't have the huge travel expense we apparently had with this attorney.
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Post by gunny on Aug 22, 2009 17:19:45 GMT -5
Estherlike, I doubt they have learned their lesson and feel above the law or not accountable. I have read the letter you mention and feel it might be time to forward it to the Commissioners and the prosecutor - probably will not do any good. What a bliffit!
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Post by ormand on Aug 22, 2009 17:36:48 GMT -5
Henry, Esterlike and Gunny, you have all hit the nail on the head!! It is absolutely amazing that the county pays all that money to have them go to the CCAO conferences, and they must just ignore what other counties do, or they "think" they know better! I think that the county needs to definitely be cleaned up, but the corruptness/acting like they are the bosses for all of the residents instead of understanding that in essense WE are THEIR bosses, has gotten so deep, how can we fix it?? You folks come up with the ideas, and I will bet there will be a big battery of people that will lockstep right along with you!!
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Post by gunny on Aug 23, 2009 14:40:43 GMT -5
Has anyone else heard the news about Sciota County? The news early this morning on WVIZ was they are the first county in fiscal emergency. They also said there are 23 Counties on fiscal watch according to the Auditor of Ohio. I am looking to see if I can read the list. I would be surprised if Ashland is not on that list.
My experience in coaching has brought something to light that may explain things about the Commissioners. One last word before my observation, I have many negative things to say and am not defending them and this came to me after reading Ormand's remarks. Many times as a coach, I had my total focus on the game. To me the athletic field is a battle of a protracted war. I am so focused on the mission that I miss some obvious details and am slammed after the fact by parents or spectators. In other words, I fail to see the forest because of the tree that is right in front of me. I see the Commissioners doing this but the difference between them and what I do is I listen to the complaints and adjust which is something they do not seem to do.
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Post by In the Know on Sept 10, 2009 21:03:30 GMT -5
Posts have dropped off because this organization has no real platform. Complaints and obstruction are not a plan. The commissioners have done what has needed done to keep the county afloat. Previous commissioners (Byers, Miller) laid the groundwork for the current budget shoertfalls. They saw it coming and continued to unwisely spend money (BOE office!). Now that responsible people are in office and having to make the hard calls, you complain. Where were you when it really mattered? You come late, yet you still come. Pathetic!
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Post by estherlike on Sept 11, 2009 13:35:32 GMT -5
More likely posts have dropped off because most of the people who are asking for things to be looked into are doing so by email rather than on these posts. These emails are read everyday and the information asked for is then acquired and forwarded on and posted on the website. Sometimes it takes time to get the information from the offices that the request is sent to. This forum is not for the Commissioners only, as the county is not only made up by the Commissioners but by other offices as well. This forum was started because of the outcry for the closing of Heartland Home and left running to continue to allow the free flowing dialog and requests. It is not only complaints that are posted here if you would read through the forum. Some just would like a better understanding of where their tax dollars are going and that is not just the Commissioners. If you look at our website we supply information on many other offices in the county as well, most at the request of county residents who would like the information but for whatever reason are unable to obtain it themselves.
I do not see this forum or any part of this website as pathetic. It is simply an avenue to request information that some do not feel comfortable asking for themselves and information is rarely a bad thing, the lack of accurate information is.
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World Wide Jack Webb
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Post by World Wide Jack Webb on Sept 11, 2009 14:38:49 GMT -5
Historically internet usage drops off during the summer months.Just because people arent taking the time to leave a post doesnt mean their not taking the time to hit information and run.No website Ive ever seen requires everyone to leave a post simply because they visited it. Just the facts maam.
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Post by estherlike on Sept 11, 2009 15:04:44 GMT -5
World Wide Jack Webb, thank you. You are correct and we are no different. We do not require anyone to leave a post but it is here if they wish to vent. That is what this is, a public forum where you can ask questions, request information or just chat.
In The Know, since your post would seem to indicate that you lay a good part of the blame for the County's current financial problems at the feet of Matt Miller (and I am not saying you are wrong, in fact I agree with you) you may be interested in the Breaking News article on the Times-Gazette today. Matt Miller will be challenging Boccieri for his seat. If you truly feel this way maybe it would be helpful or even constructive for you to come out against Mr. Miller's run for office. If you believe, as many of us do, that he is even partially to blame for the current state of affairs in our County then how can we trust him with an even higher political post. I am not saying that I support Boccieri only that I don't believe Mr. Miller would do any better and would likely do far worse.
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henry
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Post by henry on Sept 30, 2009 13:05:00 GMT -5
Hi there. I am just wondering why the Health Department of Ashland County has the right to intervene in the Ashland University's kitchen since they declare they are a PRIVATE ENTITY and do not have to answer to anyone who questions their actions on any public questions regarding their actions. They say they are one of Ashland's friendly organizations... Whoa...are they? Maybe someone higher up needs to do some checking on some of their support staff as to why everything is a big secret and they do not have to comply with requests from the public. How about some answers, President Fink!! After all, some of us are former students and do not remember such attitudes.
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henry
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Post by henry on Sept 30, 2009 20:58:57 GMT -5
On my last post. I do understand that the Health Department has the right to inspect all eateries. So don't misunderstand what I am trying to point out. It just seems that when several people want some answers to the policy of who is going to pay for certain services and that it will not come out of taxpayers monies, then they should be treated with respect and allowed an respectful answer. When told it's none of our business, excuse me, but it is.
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Post by Whirled Peas on Oct 1, 2009 12:27:09 GMT -5
I agree, Henry. The only reason the Police Department even exists, and the only reason AU has the opportunity to even hire the Police Department for their events in the first place, is because taxes are collected from residents and those working within the City of Ashland itself. I found their response to a request for full and fair disclosure, although they were well within their rights, troubling at the very least, and elitist at the very most. I wonder what the blow-back would have been if CAofAC.org had not contacted AU at all. Would they then have claimed that nobody even bothered to try and get their side, to prove they weren't unfairly pushing their costs off on the taxpayers? Let's ask Mr. Owl....
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Post by gunny on Oct 3, 2009 15:22:12 GMT -5
Whirled Peas, I agree with you and also Henry but thought about this a bit. YOU mentioned "blow back" and this really started my mind whirling. This County for so long has been in the tear up and trash talk those who disagree with your opinion mode. It is with this mentality that people instantly "hunker down" and go on the attack like a cornered wild animal. Much like AU did when asked a question that could have shot down some of the negative talk - of which AU has had quite a bit the last year or so. So! it will take a bit of time - more than I would like - for people to realize this website is for truthful information and a place where all can discuss ideas without anyone ripping them apart. If they want this type of entertainment, all you have to do is watch Armstrong channel 72 when the Ashland School Board meeting is on! That type of rip you apart is the norm for many in the County. This type of website is long overdue.
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Post by ormand on Oct 5, 2009 10:38:31 GMT -5
Just a little info needed, but over the years, AU has purchased many houses in the area and torn them down for parking lots, doesn't this noticeably affect the tax base for Ashland City? Do they pay taxes on parking lots? If you look at Broad St, etc, how many homes were taken over by the college? It might seem to me that the citizens of Ashland might have a reason to be upset with the way AU has reacted when asked for info. Did the city complain when AU wanted to do all of this expanding? Seems that since AU is in the community, it might expect that community members may have some questions, and if answered in a civil and respectful manner, the community might have a different perspective on their employees. AU has been a shining light in Ashland for a long time, I am not saying that AU shouldn't expand, it is important to do so, but hopefully they will understand that if people in the community ask for information, they should be treated with respect and give the information that is public info concerning the Ashland City Police Dept and their relationship to AU.
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Post by estherlike on Dec 11, 2009 9:58:05 GMT -5
Breaking news on the TG today is the ruling of the Judge in the fight between the BOE and the Commissioners. As is the only way this could have gone, the Judge has ruled in favor of the BOE and the taxpayers of Ashland County are now going to pay a sizable attorney debt. So far the Commissioners attorney fees are reaching $20,000 and this does not yet take into account the attorney fees for the BOE. Anyone who reads ORC and the language used for supporting certain departments would know that the Judge had no choice but to rule this way. Although the BOE did in fact agree to use the $27,900 paid in 2009 for 2008 expenses out of 2009 monies, according to ORC, the Commissioners were not permitted to allow this. The Commissioners must provide the appropriate amount required to operate this department.
I think the County residents need to petition the State to have this department funded by the State since the State rules and mandates this department and it is the only department in the County the Commissioners have absolutely no say in the operation of, only giving the money to them.
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Post by ormand on Jan 7, 2010 18:34:28 GMT -5
Don't know if anyone else has witnessed some of the things that the commissioners have done at the County Service Center, but I have seen some of the things which are unreal that someone could do to a nice building! They have done away with the sprinkler system which made the building safe for those in the building and those coming to the building! Not only have they disengaged the sprinklers, they have apparently run "the new phone system lines" through the water lines of the sprinklers, after they capped the sprinkler heads. I witnessed a lady with disabilities and having to use a walker, being unable to open the door to get to the Health Dept., reason being the automatic doors were "turned off" and a RED X sign placed over the opener! If it had not been there was a lady in the entrance area that went and opened the doors for her, she could not have gotten in....her husband was parking the car! This is a public building and it must be handicapped accessible.....those doors are very heavy and the automatic doors need to be turned on! Bet they would have a different outlook if one of them was handicapped, I mean physically handicapped! Also they said at an open house there, that the entire West wing would be for the Health Dept......funny thing the Health Dept has only perhaps 1/3 of the West wing! They do lots and hold clinics, etc., and they sure could use more room, they probably only have about what they had down town. The commissioners won't allow bulletin boards in the hallways (so the HD could advertise different things, because they do not want the halls to look cluttered!! It might look a lot more pleasant to see some things on the walls. They have discarded or sold lots of steel shelving, and now more has to be bought.....the citizens tax money!! It just doesn't make sense to me and a lot of other people as well!! If you get a chance just go out and see what is going on out there!! There is a large board on the wall in the entrance and it should be for explaining what dept is in what room, and guess what? it is locked and nothing can be put on it which would simplify questions when someone comes in the door! I guess that would be too simple for them though!
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Post by estherlike on Jan 14, 2010 12:57:49 GMT -5
The tally for the legal fees just rose another $9400 today when the Commissioners approved payment for the BOE attorney. While they are required by the court ruling to pay the BOE attorney fees, the fact still remains this should have never gone to court to start with. The ORC clearly states what would have happened and that is exactly what happened. The Commissioners MUST provide the funding required for the BOE office to function and the Commissioners fighting the BOE did nothing but cost this county in a time we are struggling for survival. Remember all this when election time comes.
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